INTERVIEWER 1: Our next guest has worked as a doctor in the current war in Gaza, including during the siege of Al-Shifa Hospital.

INTERVIEWER 2: However, after being denied re-entry back into Gaza, Dr. Ahmad Mokhallalati is still trying to help the people of Gaza as best he can. Dr. Ahmad joins us now. Thank you so much for being with us here this morning. I know that you’re very busy, and you actually delayed your surgical list here to talk to us today. We really appreciate that. Dr. Ahmad, can I ask you first — you grew up in Ireland, you worked in the UK, you went to Gaza in 2023 with your family. What prompted that move for you?

DR. AHMAD MOKHALLALATI: Thank you, I’m just glad to talk to you here. I think it was always the idea in my mind that we are super relaxed, you know, I would say, in the atmosphere in the health system we provide to the people here, compared to people in other areas who are lacking the very basic of what I provide. I’m a plastic surgeon. I do the very fancy microsurgery, free flap, which is the complex reconstruction. On the other hand, I always had a dream to go back to Gaza and build a proper plastic surgery service – which I have done. I relocated with my family in January 2023 and I started as the head of the plastic surgery unit in Al-Shifa Hospital and head of a training programme, and we were doing very well. We were working on governance of the services related to plastic surgery, training the people. We started a new training programme and everyone was cooperative, helping. And I would say Gaza before the war was a place — the best place to start change in an area of a war, where everyone would support you: from the Ministry of Health, from the international organizations, from the local NGOs. So it was the best time I ever spent, you know. And then, unfortunately, the war started and that became a nightmare. Instead of being a plastic surgeon in an operating theatre, I turned into someone on the front line — being interrogated, arrested, threatened by the Israeli officers and soldiers. I had to speak to the media. I had to be one of the only few doctors staying with hundreds of patients in areas where we’re all under siege. Continuous attacks, bombing, air strikes. At the same time, you have your family, you have your kids — I had my pregnant wife at that time. We had to take care of them. It was a frightening time.

INTERVIEWER 1: It was a frightening time. Can you just explain to us what it was like in Al-Shifa Hospital when the IDF raided?

DR. AHMAD MOKHALLALATI: So I’m talking about the first siege in Al-Shifa Hospital, which was, I would say, softer than the second one. The second one was very aggressive. The first one happened in November 2023. We were there in the hospital. They start bombing the hospital. They bombed the hospital four times over the night of the 10th of November. And there was an alarm that “you guys need to leave the hospital.” During that time we had more than 1,500 patients within the hospital buildings, which is double the capacity of the hospital. We had ICU beds full of 70 patients. We had more than 50,000 civilians sheltering within the hospital, as they bombed all the areas around the hospital and we were the only place with electricity, water and some kind of support to the people, where they can stay within the hospital. And many of the patients — you know, imagine injured people being in the hospital — the moment they bombed, they just flee. They decided to leave the hospital. I don’t know how — don’t tell me — without ambulances, without escorting, without anything. In one day, overnight after that attack, 700 of the patients left the hospital, as they felt it’s a proper threat to the hospital. The healthcare workers, the civilians sheltering — at least 45,000 left the hospital during that night. And then it became a real threat. And one of the stories I would tell you: before that, the corridors were full of people, the toilets would be very busy, you know, all these facilities would be overwhelmed. But when that attack happened — I would never forget Mohammed, who is an eight-year-old patient who had burns after [they] attacked their building, their flat, and they killed his father, his brother. He was in the hospital with his sister and mother. The sister was less severely injured than Mohammed. Mohammed had 40% burns. He couldn’t go. The mother was traumatized. She didn’t know what to do. And she left the hospital that night with her daughter, leaving Mohammed alone in our department. And you know what’s the sad thing? Mohammed was improving, was surviving the severe burn consequences. But when his mother left him, he died two days later. I think most likely he felt he was left alone. And that was one of the stories which tells you how bad it is. It’s not displacement. It’s just bombing someone and they have no choice, no one to guide them, and they just leave the place and they run away. So that’s what it looked like.

INTERVIEWER 2: We know that Gaza has the highest number of child amputees in the world. The number of children who have been killed there is absolutely horrific. And you moved, basically, from being — as you said — a plastic surgeon, to a trauma surgeon. Can you describe to us what you were seeing on a daily basis there?

DR. AHMAD MOKHALLALATI: It’s literally — my list would be 12 to 15 patients per day, day and night. I would finish around 2:00 a.m. Early morning, I had to start the next day. 60-70% of the patients were kids, literally kids. One of the reasons that we keep trying to push them is because we believe they have a higher chance of survival. And then in the middle you have to stop every now and then to help in the mass casualties, when 200 patients would arrive, you know, after an air strike to a building or whatever. But I would say it simply: we were amputating limbs because we didn’t have the capacity to preserve the limbs, and that’s how we get the patients to survive. We had to prioritize the care. Literally, you will see two or three kids in front of you, or adults as well. The adults are fathers, by the way, are — you know, or brothers — they would be there, and then you have to prioritize. And we know, for example, that this one would have survived if we are relaxed to provide proper care, but we pick the ones with higher chances of survival. So you have to deal with all of this thing, but again in the context of a lot of attacks: the family being — a patient the only survivor, kids with no support. I have to arrange for a family in the burn unit, where I told them: “You need to take care of the only survivors of the family.” And the burn unit turned into kind of — I would say, not orphans, even — like, the only-survivor group would just be sent to my unit so we can take care of them. And you have to deal with this. You have to treat the patient and you have to deal with yourself. It’s a lot of trauma. We many times collapse, but we have no time to collapse more than a few minutes and then you have to continue. The amount of casualties doesn’t give you the chance even to behave like a human being.

INTERVIEWER 2: And we’re seeing now a lot of the medics who are still in Gaza — they’re malnourished. There’s a famine erupting all over the territory. And the doctors have been — it’s a hugely dangerous place to be a medic, because they’ve been targeted. You yourself were interrogated, and not only that, but your family was threatened, so you had to send them back to Ireland. Can you tell us about that?

DR. AHMAD MOKHALLALATI: So — I got my family in Gaza, and when the war started, I’ll tell you the details of what happened. So most of the international, I would say, the foreign citizens were provided or offered evacuation just from the borders. None of them was offered a safe corridor to go there. I was not an exception. My family are all Irish and British and they were offered the evacuation, but they have to go 40 kilometres through the bombings, air strikes and everything to be there. I could not go with them. I could not leave the patients. So I kept them in my father-in-law’s house. And then the situation became really hard. Then I brought them to the hospital for three weeks with no food. We were eating literally nothing. I was busy in the hospital. No restaurants, no meals, nothing. And many times we had to eat the bread which is five days old, with the greenish, you know, fungal colour on this one, because we had nothing to eat. We relied on noodles for most of the time. And that was not me — everyone around us. And then, when the Israelis became very close to the hospital, I just sent them to my in-laws’ house. I said, “I can’t tolerate seeing you being interrogated.” And two days later, when we were under the siege with no connections, no phone calls, nothing — you know, you hardly manage every day to get a single phone call — I heard that the Israelis bombed my in-laws’ house with the family there. For two days, I didn’t know what happened. Then later I came to know that luckily they survived this. They came from under the rubble. And I thought that’s, like, a separate story: when I was interrogated by the officer, he told me, “We heard your family survived the attack. Next time we’ll get them.” And that was the time where I decided, I think that’s enough. They have to go out of Gaza. And that was the only chance to send them, and they had to go on their own. My wife being pregnant, with the kids, no one was with her. It took her two days, because the first day the checkpoint was closed. She had to wait there. She had to sleep in a school close to the checkpoint, on the stairs, with no toilets, nothing, with the girls. And then the next day she tried, and when she arrived there — I would say very simply — my eldest, Sahar, they give her a bottle of water, the people, and then she said, “Mommy, is this real water? Is this not the salty water we have been drinking for weeks?” So that was very hard, you know.

INTERVIEWER 1: Yeah. Yeah. You returned to Ireland yourself because you picked up a hand injury. After dealing with that, you made an attempt to return to Gaza, but it was blocked. Can you tell us what reason you were given for them blocking your return to Gaza?

DR. AHMAD MOKHALLALATI: I just correct you on — in February 2024, I got the hand injury. I just left using the evacuation, I would say, arrangements, to be treated. I went out, I had the treatment, and then I tried to go back, because, you know, when you go to Gaza and you see what’s happening, you can’t leave that. I was not allowed to get in except being linked to one of the international organizations. So I picked an American one. I went with them inside, and then three and a half months later I was told by the Israelis that I have to leave Gaza. “That’s enough.” And on the borders — by that time Rafah was invaded — I had to leave through Israel and then Jordan. I was again interrogated, delayed for four hours, threatened that “we can put you in prison. You should not be here. You have of Palestinian roots.” I said, “But I never had a Palestinian passport. I’m originally Palestinian, I admit that.” But they said, “We have a clear rule that anyone with Palestinian heritage — even if a third-generation Palestinian, without any proof, without any ID — they’re not allowed to get into Gaza.” I tried three times after that and then I was banned, always. They don’t give you a reason at all. And it’s not only me: whoever keeps going to Gaza, speaks loudly, talks about what they see — they ban them. And even international doctors, surgeons, nurses — everyone would be banned after three or four times going to Gaza.

INTERVIEWER 2: Now, you’re speaking to us today because you’re involved in a High Court action in relation to our airspace and the movement of weapons to Israel. Can you tell us about that, and why you’ve decided to take this action along with a group of others?

DR. AHMAD MOKHALLALATI: So, it is this general consensus in Gaza, and for everyone, that Ireland is one of the few countries and one of the few nations which would understand the suffering of the Palestinians — they would understand. We have suffered the same way, you know, and they would understand this. My daughter Sama, who’s been in the Irish schools for a year and a half, she felt the support, the solidarity, from every single person. And then you’ll be surprised to know that the airspace, the Irish airspace, is used to transfer weapons to Israel, to help in the genocide. The government here was one of the few who announced this is genocide, but at the same time we allow and facilitate the genocide to happen. The other thing is the dual-use and the military trade with Israel, which never stopped. So I felt it’s inappropriate. It’s against the values of the Irish people to allow this to happen. We tried softly to speak to the government before that, in October 2024. We have submitted, like, you know, letters. We heard almost nothing. In February 2025 they said they are working on that, they’re still investigating. So we were left with no choice, you know, except taking this legal action. You can’t just test this one and check what’s happening and keep it under process when the genocide is continuously happening. Every day we don’t stop this — we’re helping to kill hundreds of people, we help in this famine which is happening.

INTERVIEWER 2: Doctor, we could speak to you all day about this, about the dreadful situation, the horrendous situation that’s going on in Gaza. I really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us this morning. I hope you and your family remain safe, and best of luck with hopefully getting back to Gaza to help in the situation there at some point. Thank you so much for joining us today.

DR. AHMAD MOKHALLALATI: Thank you very much. Thank you for your time.